the right product for the application

212rowboat212rowboat Posts: 1,984Member ✭✭✭✭✭
just throwing this out there.... it doesn't mean anything, but is something to consider... 

oil- as was discussed last time here (that I'm aware of) is NOT generic, but- a good quality oil compared to another intended for the same purpose is often splitting hairs in most cases... gear oil is the same... but, the application intended is hugely important. 

have any of you all ever used redline engine oils?  there is NONE better... it is superior... for race cars... for a short period of time- say, 500 laps... same with blue flame oils... same with other true racing oils... they waste no volume with silly detergents, emulsifiers or dispersants.... they could care less about suspending the ash... or addressing water... all they want to do is lubricate, and cool... and they know that engine is coming apart soon.... 

same with gear lubes... racing gear lubes aren't intended to hang around too long... they're made to do one thing and do it very well- and they do... 

high volume and/or pressure water pumps are the same notion- along with high pressure/volume oil pumps... understand that high volume and high pressure aren't necessarily combined with the pump- and this may do more harm than good- pushing oil out of carefully spec'd tolerances where it was intended to stay a little while instead, and not lubricating as well because of- of water flowing so fast it doesn't remove the heat it could have had it been slow enough to reach it's saturation/transference point- making your engine run cooler than intended, and wearing hard parts worse while gobbling more fuel and spitting super rich exhaust across surfaces (like bellows) that won't last near as long as they would in the environment they were intended for....

point being- it's super duper easy to buy into the hype- and easier to figure if it's 'made' for high performance applications that it would be better for yours/ours too... when that isn't the case at all...

like I said... just something I thought i'd toss out there... I've been guilty of this many many times in my life, and learned the hard way several times (and then a few times afterward too, because I learn slow)- getting what you need in terms of consumables for the mechanics of your rig is mucho better than dropping coin on what some industries use in their applications (such as racing)...  

Comments

  • randy56randy56 Newburgh INPosts: 1,679Member ✭✭✭✭
    @212rowboat, When I put my boats to bed for the winter, included in my duty's I change all oils and  grease things needed to be as a part of winterizeation. In a discussion with the boat shop manager this sping, when I took it in for some items for repair over my head.  (He has been there 40 years went to high school with him). He ask what kind of gear lube was used. It was regular 90 wt gear lube. He recomended that was not good enough. That it should be Quicksilver racing gear lube 90 wt. Who is correct? Since I had allready changed it, it seemed a waste of $136.00 to me. But had it changed at his recomendation. For peace of mind. If that is what Mercruiser recomends for B 3's I'm sticking with it.

    He is correct, a B 3 cost too much to experiment with anything else.
    Boat Name : Knot My Prolem

    2003 - 270
  • LaReaLaRea Alexandria VirginiaPosts: 1,984Member ✭✭✭✭
    Do you mean the Quicksilver High Performance Gear Lube, or the relatively new racing gear lube sold by "Mercury Racing"?  Those are two different products.  Merc's recommendation for B3 is Quicksilver High Performance Gear Lube, not the Mercury Racing product - right?

    This is the point @212rowboat was making: just because a product is intended for racing doesn't mean it is best for non-racing applications.  

    Another example is car brake pads.  When I'm on a race track, I install track-day pads that produce enough braking force to almost pull my eyeballs out of the sockets.  They can do it over and over until the pads are literally glowing red-hot, and they'll never fade.  Great, right?  But I'd never use those brake pads on the street.  At room temperature, they barely work at all, and they squeal like fingernails on a chalkboard.  

    Different applications.  
  • randy56randy56 Newburgh INPosts: 1,679Member ✭✭✭✭
    @ LaRea My bad, Yes, Quicksilver High Performamce Gear Lube. 
    Boat Name : Knot My Prolem

    2003 - 270
  • 212rowboat212rowboat Posts: 1,984Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    @randy56 , your post in the other thread specifying use of racing gear oil just joggled my memory- that is all, that is it, there is no more.  I'm not being critical of that- I'm not there and I'm certainly not of the experience of a mechanic in the game for 40+ years.  

    what I have seen with my own two eyes:  

    - people using high lift rocker rollers atop stock springs- some of them will work, but not all.  Not only are the lift ratio's and push rod lengths critical for inference concerns, the springs themselves are expected to provide a specific rate at a specific load- when they are relieved beyond the expected load or crushed beyond that load- issues are certain to follow which may be a big deal, or may not be, depending on what gives first.... everyone wants higher ratio rockers- and it works to a degree, adding a handful of ponies for little $- but overdoing it (hey, if 1.52:1 RR's add 5hp, then 1.7:1 RR's should add 20, right?) because the advertisement uses good information for it's basis for their lies is a certain way to err.  
    - people using high lift low crush hydraulic lifters and/or adjusting them incorrectly and while using incorrect push rods and rockers atop wrong spring rates- all akin to the first point, and a certain way to scrape the lobe of a camshaft to perfectly round.... again, it is simple and 'oh so easy' to do when you're 'in there anyway, why not use HP?'... well- because when you jerk around with valvetrain geometry, you're playing with your engines heart... 
    - people pouring redline racing oil into their crankcase and then freaking when the analysis after 10 hours says "get that acidic crap out of there now!"- not knowing the oil is the best lubricant and cooling and squeezed from the best esters of group five out there, but that it is almost devoid of items that suspend ash totally without items that address water. 
    - people pouring top of the line gear oil in gear boxes that have a friction modifier added, and which makes those gears bite- but which don't have as much interest in cooling or sheer strength. using hard gears instead of soft gears... using the wrong lubricant for the wrong type of gears... attempting to keep gears too cool for fear of the heat, or too hot for fear of the cold...   
    - people installing hotter spark coils but not widening the gaps of plugs or indexing the plugs, and wondering why they foul... 

    I could go on and on... I'm guilty of so much wrong I wonder if i've ever done it right and if so if that wasn't an accident... it's often hard to see through the sales pitch of products... that is pretty much what I'm trying to say.... maybe your racing gear oil is correct for the application, Randy, I dunno- but I do know it's not better for every application simply because it seems of better quality because it's called 'racing'.   
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 3,990Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good common sense stuff here. Always marketing ploys to upsell for the $, not always for you. Slick-50 was a great one, famously clogged up the oil rings in engines. The auto transmission Slick-50 was a total disaster: some things Need friction. Automatic trannies being one. 

    2003 342FV "Black Diamond", 350 MAG MPI, 20P 4x4 Props, PC BYC, Holland, MI
  • Dream_InnDream_Inn Annapolis, MDPosts: 3,794Member, Moderator mod
    FWIW, Quicksilver high performance gear lube is what should be used.  Drew, it is not 'racing'.  It is for high performance, and that is what the bravo drives need.  It even states it in my Mercury manual.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • 212rowboat212rowboat Posts: 1,984Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    for the love of God and all that is Holy, Randy used the word 'racing' in his other post, and to my knowledge there isn't even a quicksilver 'racing' gear lube available... reading the comment simply jostled my memory about using things not as they were designed.... that is all.... I haven't attacked Randy.... I'm not intent on pointing out past mistakes.... my only intent is to communicate, and hopefully save somebody an issue in the future, that the product that best suits your use and application is better than using something designed for a totally different application that may harm your equipment- though the implication of the adverts for most of these items are "if it works for ____" then it will REALLY work for you, is BS in most cases.  
  • Dream_InnDream_Inn Annapolis, MDPosts: 3,794Member, Moderator mod

    Drew, no problem buddy.  Completely understand.  Also agree with you.  I'm a pretty much standard guy when it comes to the parts in my boat. 

    Now, my old streetrod, well, that's a different story! :)

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • randy56randy56 Newburgh INPosts: 1,679Member ✭✭✭✭
    Row LOL, kinda glad I never got into hot rods and racing, one time i did use some kinda motor honey in my truck, 5,000 miles later had to rebuild it. I think it was a mid 90's chevy 350 with 100,000 miles on it. blew up! gum up heads. No oil flow,  You are correct some of the hype about the lastest and greatest is not. 
    Boat Name : Knot My Prolem

    2003 - 270
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