To Fog or not to Fog MPI engine

seguirseguir Toronto Ontario CanadaPosts: 97Member ✭✭

Question folks...This is my first year winterizing my boat.  Is it necessary to fog my engine.  ( Year 2009 - 5.7 350mag MPI - Bravo III).  Am I to do anything else in place of fogging? Some one told me I should not be fogging a MPI engine.

 

 

Comments

  • drewactualdrewactual Posts: 811Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2013
    Map sensors don't dig that much... So... Pull it, fog it, put it back in. :-) may be that iac's don't care for it either... Of course, this won't work for hot fogging, just turning the crank cold fogging.
    Post edited by drewactual on
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 1,307Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is a procedure merc has. Mix gas & 2 stroke oil, put in fuel/water seperator. Run. Remove replace filter. I did this for a few years. I don't bother and just rely on stablizer. I store inside heated tho too.
  • drewactualdrewactual Posts: 811Member ✭✭✭✭
    http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/other-products/cleaners-and-protectants/engine-fogging-oil/?page=/storefront/fog.aspx

    You can use this stuff... It 'sposedly works pretty well.. pull oil fill cap, spray in one valve cover, pull pcv, spray in other... Pull iac, and map, cover, pull coil wire, spray into induction while turning engine with starter.. this will take care of valve springs, rockers, seats (keep a solid bead on them), intake manifold (displace h2o), bead it, valve faces, cylinder walls, and a few inches of exhaust manifolds...

    You gotta hope the valley, pushrods (that didn't get smogged through valve covers) and crankcase are protected by a good quality oil in the crankcase, that hopefully contains good amount of zinc..

    The fuel systems, well, all I got for that is to treat it.. I reckon Mr. Diamonds rec of the merc recs are the way to go..

    When you're done, just button it up by putting sensors back in and replacing coil wire.

    Mebbe al will come along and straighten me out, but this is how I've done it and seen it done... To add this, though, I've seen folks put gear lube in cylinders, which I think is nuts and begging for full lock.
  • Michael TMichael T Posts: 889Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2013

    When I did my own winterizing and when my marina did it we/they used to pour/spray fogging oil into the carbs/intakes until the engine stalled. A couple of years ago my marina became a 5 star eco certified tree hugging marina and was no longer allowed to fog the engines. I asked a couple of the techs at the time and they were not happy.They said it was too bad as fogging was the best way to go. One of the biggest marinas in the area said screw the 5 star eco cr*p last year and started fogging their engines again. Everyone I have talked with says fogging is the best way to spread the oil around. A little puff of smoke at start up and away you go. So now, I guess what I will do next year with my new 502s is to warm them up to operating temperature to put all of the acids and deposits into suspension in the hot oil, then I will use the oil extraction kit I built - a tech at the marina has borrowed it from me to use this fall, when I get it back I'll take a couple of pictures and post them here. - to remove the oil and filters while the oil is still HOT. Then I will install new oil filters and full synthetic oil (merc insists on it for the new 502s for warranty),  run the engines for a few minutes then turn it over to the techs to do the drive lube etc. Since I found out that not all marinas heat the oil to operating temperature before changing it (who are these morons?) I either do it myself or stand there while the tech does it. I think I mentioned on another post that on the first oil change of my new 350 mags this year (on the Rinker 2013 EC 310 I had)  the tech said - WOW! does the oil ever flow nice at operating temperature. I said - really? no kidding - you stupid bugger, don't you always heat it up to O.T.? He just looked at me. I said - honestly - if I ever find out someone here has changed cold oil on my engines I'll rip his nuts off. He laughed - and I said - oh buddy, don't laugh - I mean it. MT

    Post edited by Michael T on
  • drewactualdrewactual Posts: 811Member ✭✭✭✭
    laying up engines, not necessarily marine engines, but engines meant for seriously long term storage- ALWAYS heated them up by running them, and draining them, and THEN swapping out old oil and filters for new oil/filters, and running them again to OT..  firing them almost as soon as the oil rests in the pan, and filling the filter previous to firing them so as not to run em' dry even for a second (requires some math, never want to overfill)... and using oil intended for classic vehicles, or marine applications, or diesel application with less corrosive detergents than conventional (or even some syn) oils...

    THEN, while it's still warm, hitting it with fogging oil from a can, with coil wire removed and using the starter to turn it until the can is gone.... a full can total, roughly 1/4 in each valve cover, and the rest past the blades of the throttle body.... carb's are a different animal... carb's are pulled, drained, cleaned, and stored separately as dry (of fuel) as possible in a place they won't pick up contaminants or humidity- and the intake is fogged by turning the engine w/ the starter...

    this only is where protection of hard parts is concerned, and not about fuel systems or tanks.

    they usually smoke like a hollywood smoke machine for a few seconds when they are re-fired for the first time, but it's better than the alternative(s).... mr. tree hugger and friends should think about the impact of rebuilding in terms of carbon footprint of disposal of perfectly good oil and replacement before they bugger out on a little smoke. :-D 
  • Glassguy54Glassguy54 Cedar Rapids, IaPosts: 119Member ✭✭✭
    What if I've got a climate controlled building where I keep my boat (350 MAG MPI) and said building has floor drains and pit drain, and I change the oil, but don't fog, and put the muffs on every couple of weeks and fire her up and run it periodically?
  • drewactualdrewactual Posts: 811Member ✭✭✭✭
    If you're diligent about running it up to temperature every two weeks, no special oil, or fogging is required.. no additive to inhibit varnishing or gelling of fuel is needed.. all you need to do is make certain the excess fuel is treated so it doesn't foul/stale, and that you start it and run to temp at least every two weeks... If it isn't climate controlled so far as temperature is concerned, you're better off fogging it and blowing out water jackets... Running it every two weeks isn't worth the effort, in my opinion, of clearing that water out of it if it has the slightest chance of freezing.
  • nhsdnhsd Posts: 52Member ✭✭
    What if the power goes down for a few days during a cold snap??? If you have been running that thing on the muffs putting fresh water into the system, you will be buying a new engine. I would fully winterize unless the indoor storage was underground where it wouldn't get below freezing even without power.

    Dave

    2002 Captiva 212, 5.0 220 hp, Alpha 1 Gen II, 1.62 gears, Alpha 4 20 pitch (aluminum), Vengence 21 pitch (stainless), trailer with most use in Ohio River, 2008 F-150 Supercrew XLT 4x4 tow vehicle

  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 1,307Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    I cannot speak for everyone, but at the inside storage buildings around me all have emergency gensets if the power goes out.  Be a lot of unhappy campers if it froze, probably 80+ boats in just one building with mostly 30-50' boats.  No one winterizes.
  • drewactualdrewactual Posts: 811Member ✭✭✭✭
    Which requires me to ask: how do you fellas blow out the water jackets without pulling the freeze plugs or block drain? Do y'all just let gravity take its course on the lower unit? Blowing out the engine alone is simple.. all this marine stuff is complicates, no?
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 1,307Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Muffs on the outdrives and run the pink antifreeze through the system and leave it.
  • drewactualdrewactual Posts: 811Member ✭✭✭✭
  • AlswaggAlswagg Posts: 372Member ✭✭✭
    The proper procedure, especially if your engine is equipped with catylitic converters are to mix 2 stroke oil with the gas in a 2 gallon container.  Attach this to the fuel barb at the low pressure fuel pump/ filter.  Run the engine as normal.  Map sensors will be damaged with Fogging oil as well as oxegen sensors.  These engines are not your grapma's motors any more.  Improper winterizing can and will lead to very expensive repairs.   We highly recommend to also drain your engine of all water from the block and manifolds. We run 2 gallons of marine antifreeze through the system and allow to drain back out.  This coats the inside of the block and will treat any captured water.    In the spring simply lube the drain plug with a light coat of vasaline and reinstall.  Oh, the marine antifreeze will also keep the sea water pump impellor lubricated for spring start up.   Good luck  Al
  • Glassguy54Glassguy54 Cedar Rapids, IaPosts: 119Member ✭✭✭

    How many ounces of 2 stroke oil in 2 gallons of gas? Do you run through the entire 2 gallons?  And on a 2007 non catalyzed 350 MAG MPI, where is the low pressure pump fuel barb located? Thanks!

  • AlswaggAlswagg Posts: 372Member ✭✭✭
    We use 1 qt of two stroke oil, 2 oz of Star tron fuel treatment, to a 2 gallon fuel tank.  Top off the fuel tank or close to it.  Run the engine for approximatly 10 to 15 minutes.  This is enough time to warm the motor for an oil change, and winterizations ect.   The fuel inlet is located in the front lower starboard corner of the engine.  Be carefull with the fuel lines as they are hard to remove.  Be sure to plug and run your blower to elimate fumes.    In the spring change your fuel filter.  Good luck  Al
  • Glassguy54Glassguy54 Cedar Rapids, IaPosts: 119Member ✭✭✭
    So, this is the fuel ine that runs from the tank into the Gen 3 cool fuel module? Pull that off, then connect fuel line from the 2 gal container and run till the 2 gals are consumed?
  • AlswaggAlswagg Posts: 372Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, the main gas line.  No you don't run the whole 2 gallons.  Just for about 10 to 15 minutes.  Usually around a quart or so of gas, maybe a little more.  We use a 2 gallon outboard tank for this.  We can run many units with this container.  Al
  • frenchshipfrenchship Québec ,CanadaPosts: 137Member ✭✭
    Al Mecruiser mix to fog engines is a 6 gallons tank fill up with 19 liters of gaz, 2 liters of TC-W3 two stoke oil and 150 ml fuel system treatment. Would that be for each engine? Your mix is similar but in smaller quantity would that be enough.Also how many gallons of anti-freeze should be run through the engines with the earmuffs on the stern drives, I guest that the fogging mix could be done at the same time of the anti-freeze. Should I remove all the blue drain plugs(3) and drain the block before putting the ant-freeze in. And by the way thanks a millions for all the good Infos that you give us. Paul
  • AlswaggAlswagg Posts: 372Member ✭✭✭
    We always remove the drain plugs from the block and manifolds.  Each engine is differant.  We then run about 2 gallons of non toxic marine antifreeze -75*f though the system and allow to drain.  This is all done while on the fog mix.  Once the anitifreeze has been run.  we simply turn off the motor, place the plugs in a bag along with the bilge plug.  We put the plugs in a cup holder near the shifter or steering wheel.  We install the plugs in the spring with a small amount of lubricat on the o ring and threads.  Note, if you do not remove the water from the block how do you know if the thermostat is open to allow for the antifreeze to mix properly?  Again, remove the block and manifold plugs prior to running marine antifreeze.  Good luck Al
  • Dream_InnDream_Inn Annapolis, MDPosts: 661Member, Moderator ✭✭✭✭

    I agree!  run engine up to temp, drain plugs, reinstall and run pink thru.

    On my current boat(closed cooling), I use the hand pump and and then run a couple gallons of pink thru.

    Dream 'Inn III -- 2008 400 Express

  • Capt RonCapt Ron Georgian Bay, Ontario Posts: 155Member ✭✭✭
    I do what Alswagg suggested, however, I never fog my engine... the boat isn't out of the water for that long and foggng the engine only causes headaches down the road like sensor problems, fouled plugs and other problems. Haven't fog an engine for over 10 years, never an issue in the spring. I would only fog an engine if I was laying up for more than one season.
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