Poor performance for 2013 Rinker 260

MIKES342MIKES342 Posts: 163Member ✭✭✭

Just curious to see if anyone is haveing problems with a 260 A/C, Generator Radar ARch, planing with 3 to 4 adults, full of fuel.  I have to get people to move forward or it won't plane easily.  WOT around 5000 RPMs is 39mph has anti foulding paint and the bottom is clean.  over 4000 RPM's the bow starts to jump up and down until I use down trim tabs about 3 lights on the tab indicator.

When tryin to plane the tabs are half down and the engine all the way in.  I have the mercruiser 377 with 320 hp that has catalyst.  I have changed the props from 22.5 pitchs to 20.0 pitch that helped. 

I have contacted my dealer to see what can be done to improve performance I have 19 hours on the engine.

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Comments

  • MIKES342MIKES342 Posts: 163Member ✭✭✭

    Does anyone have a 260 with radar arch,6.2 bravo 3, genny and  A/C.  Just wondered what kind of performance you are getting?  What pitch on the props and what is the gear ratio.  What is WOT in RPMs.  How long does it take to plane with 4 on board a full of fuel.  Your responses would be appreciated as I still haven't heard from Rinker or my Dealer yet.

    I guess I will have to chnge my sign from MIkes 342 to something different.  I miss my 342 but don't miss the 2 hour trip to Lake Erie vs my 10 minute trip locally

     

    Mikes????

  • ShaunShaun Posts: 30Member ✭✭
    Mike, I owned a EC280 without the generator but everything else the same including the engine. I always had topped up fuel (an old habit) and a lot of things in the galley. Bigger boat, more weight and only once did I ever have trouble getting on plane. That was with a full load of fuel and water, seven people and a strong current when we were just about under the Bluewater Bridge at Sarnia where Lake Huron has the big currents just after going into St. Clair River. I believe after my year with my 280 you should be doing better than you are. Just my opinion. Try full tabs maybe? 
  • markbellinomarkbellino Oakville, OntarioPosts: 555Member ✭✭✭

    I have a 2011 Rinker 260 EC, with AC, full water tank, full gas tank, 1/2 full waste tank, 1 crank battery, 1 large (31D) deep cycle battery, every compartment stocked full. I have a MAG 350 MPI, 5.7L, 300 hp onboard with 20P props on a bravo 3 drive.

    My WOT is 5000 RPM. My top speed is around 40 mph, with trim tabs up and drive trimmed up.

    I normally need to have trim tabs fully down to plane in a decent time. I can plane in around 7 or 8 seconds with tabs down and my family onboard, 2 adults, 2 kids.  Without trim tabs down this probably changes to 15 seconds, assume a calm lake.

    With more adults it slows down.  My heaviest load ever was 6 adults and 6 kids, assume around 1500 lbs.  A few waves out, call it 1 footers - took me around 40 seconds or more to plane - it was really tough!

    I need to stay above 3600 rpm to stay on plane - this is around 22 - 24 mph. Fuel consumption is best at this range at around 2 mpg.

    Mark Bellino

    Boat Name: King Kong

    "Its all a-bout a-boat."

  • MIKES342MIKES342 Posts: 163Member ✭✭✭

    Mark,

    I appreciate the information  i think the generator is about 300 lbs.  Wit just me and my wife I can plane with me and my wife in about 8 sec with full tabs down.  Initially they had a 24p prop and it was miserable the 20 changed the perofrmance.  Do you think it would make it easier to move people forward until you plane?  Or may be I am just used to the twin 6.2 I had on my 342.  I am cranking about 4900 to 5000 rpms and about 39 mph on flat lake.  Of course I have bottom paint that will slow the boat down.  Although there is no growth on it.  Do you have to keep the tabs down a little at 5000 rpns to keep the bow from going up and down?

    I really appreciate the information Thanks so very much

  • markbellinomarkbellino Oakville, OntarioPosts: 555Member ✭✭✭
    I also have bottom paint. Yes it helps if passengers move forward. If lake is flat i do not need trim tabs down to avoid porpoising. However at about 1 ft waves trim tabs slightly down does stabilize the boat.

    Mark Bellino

    Boat Name: King Kong

    "Its all a-bout a-boat."

  • pepmysterpepmyster Posts: 64Member ✭✭
    Hi Mike, with the info your giving,seeing that everything is full, plus 2 extra  people, that is drag the boat for-sure. You'll have the start using your tabs to get on plane with that load, it would help for sure.

    All I've wanted was to just have fun.

  • Michael TMichael T Posts: 1,272Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2013
    Hey Mike, If I remember your original comments you bought your beautiful new 260 to be able to get around more (in retirement?). From the looks of the pictures you have made that happen. When I look at the pictures you have posted, most notably the ones from the side, (abeam) it is easy to see where your guests will be sitting in relation to the "tipping point" of a hull the length of yours - which is pretty much right at the leading edge of your windshield. If you have any number of guests sitting at the rear while trying to plane they will be at the end of the "teetter totter" so to speak. By moving your guests forward until you plane and placing any gear (coolers etc) that you can forward in the cabin while you have more guests on board will make a big difference. As you know, on your 342 you had a lot more hull which changes the "teeter totter" effect dramatically - thereby allowing you to have much heavier loads to be shifted aft in your 342. In my opinion, your new boat, particularly with the appropriately pitched props, is behaving like any well designed 260 made by anyone will behave. I'd experiment with the load placement, move extra guests forward while planing and have fun being able to take that awesome rig anywhere you feel like wandering to! MT
    Post edited by Michael T on
  • MIKES342MIKES342 Posts: 163Member ✭✭✭
    Michael, your explanaiion has mde more sense than anything I have heard so far I am now wondering if I put some weight in the front end that shoud take care of the majority of my problems.  I guess I just need to know where I can get some additional soft sided weights to put below the v berth.
  • TikiHut2TikiHut2 Sarasota, FlPosts: 1,153Member ✭✭✭✭
    MT has it nicely broken down right to the brass tacks.

    I'd only add that any gear you can re-position is far more preferable than merely adding otherwise unneeded weight. Even additional chain on the ground tackle helps and isn't just dead weight. If you know your day is going to include a big crew try and offset that extra load in the rear with less weight in fuel and make sure the waste tank is empty, even a completely full water tank may not be needed if it's just a joy ride for a few hrs. 

    Because these boats are naturally tail heavy, on our 270 heavy stowable gear in the cabin goes as far forward as we can get it, usually under the salon seats, the table or in the peak of the v-berth. I also moved our large cooler amidship under the cockpit sink and will move my crew forward until we're on plane if it's a big crowd. Like Michael said it's a balance thing.

    Sailors call movable ballast(crew) rail meat and it's a huge factor in balancing a boat whether you're trying to keep a 50' mast vertical on a blowing day or helping a heavily laden powerboat get up on plane. Stowed gear is also movable ballast. Keep it where it'll help and otherwise lighten the load.

    On another note, if the boat is porpoising on plane try leaving the tabs fully up and just trimming the O/D to tame it. 

    Enjoy that new boat. It sounds like a nice ride, and where are the pics?? ;) Mike
    2004 FV270, 300hp 5.7 350mag MPI Merc 305hrs, 2:20 Bravo3 OD w.22p props, 12v Lenco tabs, Kohler 5kw genset, A/C, etc.etc...
    Regular weekender, Trailer stored indoors, M/V TikiHut, Sarasota, Fl
  • MIKES342MIKES342 Posts: 163Member ✭✭✭
    It is in the Rinker Photo Gallery section under "New 260".  Thanks for your response I appreciate the comments and it looks like I am where I need to be just moving people around which I will try next time out
  • Michael TMichael T Posts: 1,272Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mike (TikiHut) is, in my opinion 100% on track. I'd try to use the normal stuff I have on board before adding just weights. I have had to "balance" many of my past boats. I'm 6'6" and about 225 lbs. So when I was alone in my smaller Rinkers (226 XL for example) I HAD to balance the boat or go down the river with the starboard gunnel almost in the water - not a pretty sight! I did my best to use the normal stuff I had on board OR might need on board. Like a couple of 5 gallon soft sided water jugs because we can always use some extra water which can be poured right into the boat's fill hole later. Even with my new EC 310 I have had to balance it side to side and fore to aft. I put the heavy stuff in the front fridge and ligher stuff in the back fridge. I put a couple of soft sided coolers with beers and food on the front berth. As the loads change ( think waste tank) I move things around. It is a constant process but it's still fun on the water. It beats yardwork! So, Mike, please do not get discouraged, with some experimentation with loading, use of your tabs when needed and asking your guests to move forward you'll get it right. I was embarassed the first time, years ago, when I asked my guests to move forward and sit in a manner to balance my boat and I apologized to them. One of the guests put it right into perspective for me when he said "Are you kidding - I get to spend a great day on the water in your boat and all you're asking me to do is sit in a certain seat - show me where!" Mike you have a boat that most people would envy and many could not afford. Unlike mine you can just up and go anywhere. You will get it balanced and have a great time, of that I'm sure! Regards! MT 
  • MIKES342MIKES342 Posts: 163Member ✭✭✭
    Thanks Michael, I will let you know how it works out the next time out  thanks again
  • MIKES342MIKES342 Posts: 163Member ✭✭✭
    I wonder what would happen with a 19 pitch prop. I am teaching about 4900 rpm. With the 6.2 bravo 3 I should be able to plane in at least 10 sec that is with half tank of fuel and water. Can do it with two adults in board. My dealer said he has been waiting for information from Randy Rinker. Well this has been going on long enough time to start complaining.
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 1,802Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    A 19P sounds like you would be right at the high end of WOT, right where it should be. I'd think Rinker would get you a set to try.
  • AlswaggAlswagg Posts: 372Member ✭✭✭
    Are you using your tabs in the down position when taking off?  Have you or your dealer verified, the trim stick is located in the correct position on the outdrive?  This must be in the "forward position" on all Rinker's with bravo drives.   Trim tab wedges can help with performance as well as a set of extra wide trim tabs.   The 260 has an extreamly short running surface, much shorter than the predecesor 270.  The shorter running surface wth the same weight, makes for a slightly longer planing time.   These simple steps can greatly decrease your plane time.   Good luck  Al
  • Michael TMichael T Posts: 1,272Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2013
    Hey Mike, This may be a bit "way out there" but this issue has really been bugging me. I just spent three days at a big marina. After a few drinks at night the guys usually gathered and talked boats. I threw out your issue as a challenge. One guy said he had a friend with a boat that had a similar configuration to yours. It was driving his friend nuts as he always felt his boat was about to tip backwards like he was going over a wake. He could balance it fine with just he and his wife on board but four or more and their gear and he didn't like the ride. A relative was a mechanical engineer who suggested lengthening the trim tabs. The engineer calculated that 6 to 8 ìnches would make a decent difference. He said they could be widened too but he felt widening would be more for side to side control than front to back control. Anyway, the guy took his tabs to a fabricator who lengthened them. The fabricator said if it worked he'd make him a new set for about $150.00 so it would look "cleaner". Apparently it made an astounding difference to the boat's ride. I asked if the trim's ram actuators had to be repositioned. He wasn't sure. I asked if he ever got new ones or widened then and the guy wasn't sure. Sorry for the rambling story but there has to be an easy cure for this situation. I called a local company Hewitt Engineering/Fabrication and they said they could easily weld or fabricate tabs if they had the originals and it would be $75.00 to $ 100.00 per tab. Hope this helps. P.S. I know there are aftermarket "sport" and "racing" oversized tabs available but they are usually really pricey and would probably need to drill different holes in your transom for the rams. I'll keep asking around when I'm on the docks or at marinas. I'm retired so any time talking about boats is "time well spent"  (haha )MT
    Post edited by Michael T on
  • TonyWalkerTonyWalker Palmetto, FLPosts: 260Member ✭✭✭

    What a great solution this would be.  I have been following this thread because I know how much Mike enjoyed his 342 which was quite trouble free as I understand it up on Lake Erie.

    Tony

    Salt Shaker 342

  • MIKES342MIKES342 Posts: 163Member ✭✭✭

    My salesman called today and said they were going to have Randy Rinker call me.  Al, I haven't adjusted the trim stick as you suggested yet. The dealer is 100 miles away which adds the problem.  If I were local to them it would be a lot easier to deal with. I will be taking it back to them for winterization 

    I really haven't taken the boat out of the water since I changed the props from a 24" pitch to the 20" pitch that they sent me.  I have tried with full tabs down.  Half tabs down all with the engine drive all the way down.   The engine seems to be struggling and it almost sounds like it the engine changes speed right before it planes.  I am currently WOT at 4900 rpms and 40 mph if my speedometer is correct.  Although I don't want my top  speed to be 35mph

    I hate to think what this boat would have been like without the 6.2 liter engine.  If I can get this taken care of I ill love my retirement boat.  Right now I am missing the 342 but that will go away once this has been taken care of.

     

     

  • Michael TMichael T Posts: 1,272Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mike, the positioning trim sticks (that Al talked about) on your in your drive arm rams may be a very critical component of this issue. If the "sticks" are positioned to give LESS negative trim then they will be cancelling the good effects of your trim tabs (when deployed fully down) - in other words the two will be at least partially cancelling each other wasting energy and thrust as well as putting less hull in the water. The change that moving those sticks can have is quite noticable on many boats. MT
  • MIKES342MIKES342 Posts: 163Member ✭✭✭
    I received this email from my dealer today. now I just need to find the time to take the boat out of the water and check the trim sticks.  If I read this correctly the boat comes with the bravo 3 pin in the aft position which means the odds are really great that mine needs to be adjusted.  also to add weight to the bow.  I appreciate everyones help I just need to get the boat out of the water and give it a try.  I am going to try adjusting the pit first then try it out then put the weight in the bow.  I will let everyone know how this turns out.
     
     
    Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:16 PM
    Subject: RE: Skunza 260

    Tim,

    I have attached the info for the trim pin location on the Bravos. The standard position for this pin on the Bravo 3 is in the aft position. It is recommended by Rinker to put this in the forward position as it will tuck the drive in further and help planing. Next if he runs the trim tabs full down not halfway before taking off and raising them after on plane, this will also help. The placement of weight in the bow will also help. You could put 150 lbs. in the bow storage and this would improve planning and help with the porposing. You could also space the trim tabs at the actuator to give the trim tabs a little down even when trimmed up all the way. We have spacers for this. Overall all manufacturers cruisers of the size 24 to 26 feet, because of the short length and tall height do not plane as well as the larger single engine cruisers.

    Randy Rinker

    Warranty / Customer Service

    NGG

  • MIKES342MIKES342 Posts: 163Member ✭✭✭
    I am pulling the boat this tuesday and changing the trim sticks.  I am also going to put 150 lbs of sand under the bow cushion.  I am also going to change the oil.  I will let everyone know the results.
  • Michael TMichael T Posts: 1,272Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mike, the pins will really help. I changed the pins on both of the B llls on my EC 310 and that made a difference as did using the tabs fully down to achieve plane. The weight in the bow will definately make a big difference too, but I'd try to use stuff I usually carry before just using sand bags. How many cases of beer to get to 150 lbs? MT
  • MIKES342MIKES342 Posts: 163Member ✭✭✭
    I am trying to think of what I can put under the bow section of my v berth that will weight 150 lbs I can use some tools probably 40 lbs. I can't think of anything else. Anyone have any ideas
  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 1,802Member ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Michael TMichael T Posts: 1,272Member ✭✭✭✭
    Soft sided potable water jugs (usually about $10.00 each) which hold at 5 gallons of water. You can drink it or pour it directly into your water tank fill to use if on the hook, then just fill with river water for the return. Sanitize them and repeat. Just trying to think of something you can use while cruising. MT
  • TikiHut2TikiHut2 Sarasota, FlPosts: 1,153Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2013
    Tools and anchor chain, better/bigger anchor, stowed drinks, extra oil/liquids  for a start.

    MTs idea has merit. They actually make extra tough custom sized flexible water containers with fittings that will unroll to fit in awkward sized voids for carrying extra drinking water capacity in cruising boats and sailboats. You could use it as water ballast that doubles as drinking water to add/replace the water tank weight normally kept in the stern where it kills performance. It'd beat carrying any more dead weight on your 260.

    Be careful about getting the bow too heavy. It could cause handling complications in certain sea conditions. Good luck finding the right combination. Mike
    Post edited by TikiHut2 on
    2004 FV270, 300hp 5.7 350mag MPI Merc 305hrs, 2:20 Bravo3 OD w.22p props, 12v Lenco tabs, Kohler 5kw genset, A/C, etc.etc...
    Regular weekender, Trailer stored indoors, M/V TikiHut, Sarasota, Fl
  • MIKES342MIKES342 Posts: 163Member ✭✭✭

    Today I pulled the 260 actually the admiral drove it on the trailer. She really does a great job I handle the trailer she handles the boat.

    I decided to change the oil and used a jabsco pump that you screw on the dip stick.  I worked very well for my purpose.  I then tried toget the oil filter off.  It was impossible I used a normal filter wrench and crushed the filter.  I called a local marina that I have done business with many times and they all know me.  I asked them if they had time to get the darn thing off.  They said bring it in.  A young guy about 28 who was very strong couldn't budge it and the filter continued to collapse.  Then he went to the shop and brought out a filter wrench that actually penitrates the filter for a better grip.  He muscled it off finally.  So we poured the new oil in the engine.  I asked how much I woed them and the service manager said just give something to the man who took it off.  I gave him a 20 and went inside and told the owner how great his service department was.  I have known him and bought several boats from him and he has sold a couple for me as well.

    Then I returned home and checked the Trim Pin that everyone has asked me to check.  The biggest part of the plastic was facing the stern of the boat making it push the outdrive with more in trim.  So that will not help the performance.  I will try to add some weight to the bow next.

    Oh yes I washed and waxed the entire boat also.  I am 66 years young and it relly wore me out. 

    Hopefully adding the bow weight will help. 

  • Black_DiamondBlack_Diamond Holland, MichiganPosts: 1,802Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have a filter wrench that is like channel locks. It does not slip. Most people put filters on way too tight. Hand snug works. Sounds like a cold beer night after all that!
  • Michael TMichael T Posts: 1,272Member ✭✭✭✭

    Another trick to easier removal of an oil filter is to take some engine oil on your finger and run it around the rubber gasket, then as BD suggests just tighten it until it's snug. To get them off when badly stuck I have used a long screwdriver, driven it right through the filter and twisted it off. That has always removed a too tight filter. It's not recommended procedure but a good Hail Mary. MT

  • MIKES342MIKES342 Posts: 163Member ✭✭✭
    The marina guy used a device like Black Diamond described. I need to get one of those. It will never agin be that tight not on my boat anyway. I triple wrapped two 50 lb bags of sand per Randy Rinker loading up on gas tomorrow and will relaunch tomorrow. I'll see if that actually helps
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